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DalianDalian Vs Dalian Xpat

Why are there more active users on DalianXpat than on DalianDalian? As can be noted on even cursory searches for Dalian, DalianDalian ranks highly. So it can't just be about inaccessibility or being hard to find. DalianXpat has a pre-existing community and benefits a lot from word of mouth, but also has a bit of a rocky history, so this can be taken either way. There are bloggers, and a google blog search for Dalian has lots of ESL teaching type results, but DalianDalian ranks higher than my own blog (on pages 2 and 4 respectively for me). So there is no shortage of material being written in and about Dalian. So why is it that the forums over at DalianXpat are more active than there are here? and why don't more people syndicate (distribute) their content here?

Alastair

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Re: DalianDalian vs DalianXpat

Rick's picture

I'd prefer not to compare the two sites, because when we began DalianDalian we set out to build more than just a forum. Thanks mostly to Alex's ninja skills, we now have extensive listings, an awesome map, photo integration, a blogging platform (which I see you've discovered Clark), and a ton of content that is all categorized and tagged thus making it easier to find. And yes, DalianDalian has a forum too.

DalianDalian was started by myself and Alex and Chris, because we preferred to give to the community rather than take from it. And despite the fact that this was just a hobby for us, we managed to build it a pretty amazing website. We have not tried to make a business out of it because up until now, we didn't believe the expat community was big enough to bring in significant revenue.

A few years back before DalianDalian began, I considered contributing all my Dalian content (previously hosted on Pandapassport.com) to DalianXpat. But I decided against it for 2 reasons:
  1. I didn't think that a forum was the best way to present information about restaurants, bars, and other landmarks.
  2. It didn't make sense for me to write content, and then hand it over to some other guy to manage and profit from. I can't say so for sure, but I suspect the others felt the same way.

I'm in Japan now, and Chris is back in the US. But Alex is doing a pretty amazing job with the site, and it's good to see new comers like yourself finding it useful. I think for people who have difficulty with computers or the internet, the chat forum (BBS) format over on DalianXpat is just fine. Different strokes for different folks, and that's fine.

While we haven't done things perfectly here on DalianDalian, I think the site does stand alone in the mass of English content it provides about the city of Dalian. Personally, I feel extremely proud of the fact that we gave it to the community, rather than asking the community to give it to us.

n/a

I'm not seeking to compare.

clarkalastair's picture

My point is mainly regarding usage. I believe that DalianDalian is a useful site which has potential for much more if there was a bigger community generating content. As a not-for-profit website I have no problems putting my content here as it connects me with a wider audience than my own blog (and flickr photo stream). I would feel differently if, as in the case of Dalian Xpat, somebody was profiting through a business strategy, from something that I devote my spare time and energy to. On the flip side to this, I do understand that hosting costs money, and there's plenty of other (free) sites that I can write, post pictures, mp3s, videos etc onto. It's a case of being clever about it.

I can understand why others, like yourself, who already have websites want to keep that content on sites that they maintain themselves and use as an online expression/example of what they can do and have done in the past. This is something that I consider myself regarding my own content. I syndicate my (personal/Dalian) blog across multiple sites, to make it as widely available to different communities as possible. It's rss-ed from blogger into facebook notes, for my lazy friends who can't be bothered to visit my blog. Through facebook into xiaonei, so that my students can read what I'm upto, my opinions and get some cultural exposure to a geeky British guy living and teaching in Dalian. I'm rss-ing it here so that the content is more accessible to people searching for info about Dalian, and as a secondary aim to support Alex and what he's doing. Apart from anything else, I just like to know that my stuff's being read, and It's not like I'm Chaucer, Shakespeare or Dickens, I'm not going to make money from it, so I like to see that it's benefiting somebody somehow.

I'm not suggesting or asking the community give anything back. The main thrust of the question (and not clearly stated by me) was why more people don't use DalianDalian, because as stated, it's not-for-profit, it has some cool functions, its accessible and in my opinion useful.

Regards,

Alastair

----------------------------
Alastair Clark

http://alastairclark.com

I'd compare a blogging

Alex's picture

I'd compare a blogging platform like Shanghaiist to a forum like ShanghaiExpat. While DD is more flexible than both, I think the comparison is valid. And equally, while ShanghaiExpat is a busy forum, Shanghaiist actually gets a lot more visitors. Different visitors visiting for different purposes, and served by different websites catering to different audiences.

Signal-noise ratio: With blogging and great photography a central component of DalianDalian, the bar for contributions has set itself quite high. That doesn't mean posts are restricted in any way, and the 'questions' section was created to address someone asking random stuff, plus 'voting' allows a method for maintaining a good signal-noise ratio, but it may be a factor in making some visitors apprehensive.

User communities, and ownership: Communities change, especially in a place as transitive as Dalian. The regular user/poster community on DalianXpat last year was almost completely different from the year before, and the year before that, and the year before that. On DD it hasn't changed as much, though I do see that as a bad thing, since the community of Dalian-based bloggers has turned over, it would be great to connect them with DD and help them reach a wider audience.

Terms of Serive: As Rick points out, by taking part in the DX community the Terms of Service of the site clearly state DalianXpat owns your content. It's great to help others, but there's something astoundingly wrong in giving good quality stuff to an organisation that does a crappy job and hides their claim to your own stuff in a complex piece of legal jargon.

Being non-revenue: It was decided at the beginning of the site that DalianDalian would be non-profit. The easiest way to be non-profit is not to earn anything, and not to spend anything. That also means DalianDalian can have a truly independent (non partisan) stance, and not be swayed by advertising money, and it also means if a company would like to add content to the site like an event or a blog post, any conflict of interest is very obvious. Not spending anything keeps the site strictly 'hobby', and that means not sending commercial email spam etc which may cause a pickup in less Internet-savvy visitors.

At the core of DalianDalian is aggregation on a local level - we don't want you to come here to post content if you don't want to, rather if you post content in your own way it would be great to connect with a Dalian audience. That, coupled with a "don't spend money" philosophy keeps me confident that DalianDalian will be a strong Internet based presence for years to come. It might never get the most comments, but that's fine, since the purpose of the site is providing information, not a quasi-popularity contest.

So we've highlighted the differences.

clarkalastair's picture

We've highlighted the differences, but I have to come back to the core of this question. The point about Shanghaist and ShanghaiXpat is taken, but I'm asking why it is that the (more obviously) forum has a higher level of user participation?

I'm not so interested in this quasi-popularity contest as you put it, but in seeing more use of a good tool, that even with a a couple more regular bloggers could be much more diverse and interesting. I'd like to see DalianDalian be the place to come to read and post blogs about Dalian, because there's not much by way of search that can provide that in a convenient way at the moment. Google Blog Search provides lots of TEFL and ESL teaching forums and blogs.

So it might be down to lack of familiarity with Drupal is causing a problem, just being unaware of DalianDalian, an unwillingness to syndicate their blog, laziness or resistance to change to a new platform/place. But whatever the issue, I'd like to investigate why this is and whether or not DalianDalian gets more traffic than DalianXpat, it can still be improved by more contributers.

What I'm thinking about is maybe a weekly email that includes summaries of that weeks top 5 voted blogs, and some text at the bottom saying... If you'd like to contribute, login and add your blog here.

Or it could be done more directly with an email to people who have blogs about Dalian, to see if they'd like to contribute. But maybe this is less preferable. If it was me, and I hadn't heard of the site, I might question the motives. If it was stated that DalianDalian is not-for-profit and achieves this through having no revenue, I think my doubts would be much reduced.

Regards,

Alastair

----------------------------
Alastair Clark

http://alastairclark.com

Agreed. Interface can be tricky.

Rick's picture

As it stands, I think the interface is a little tricky for anyone who wants to write here. For example if I want to add a link, I click INPUT FORMAT and then FULL HTML and then I type out some link tags.

Most users will be annoyed by this, I think, in comparison to easy WYSIWYG editors on other platforms.

n/a

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